@Mineria Whoops meant to say "many" not "any". I seem to be making a lot of typos this morning...

schmidtbag:

@Mineria Whoops meant to say "many" not "any". I seem to be making a lot of typos this morning...

Murphy's law 😀

Apparently the HW requirements for 11 do not just have to do with security, but stability too: For example, PCs that meet the Windows 11 hardware requirements had a “99.8 percent crash-free experience” during Insider testing, while those that did not experienced 52 percent more kernel crashes, 17 percent more app hangs, and 43 percent more crashes for Microsoft’s bundled apps than did compliant PCs... https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-11/254865/microsoft-keeps-windows-11-hardware-requirements-but-will-placate-enthusiasts

^^ Ouch!

schmidtbag:

That's exactly the problem: I currently am running Arch+KDE .... I find Linux to objectively be a better OS. But my anecdotes and feelings don't account for everyone.

Yeah I agree with you when comes to change. Everyone wants something "modern" yet they cry. I still remember people cursing vista because the icons look too "glassy"!!!! Revering to XP. You know what are most annoying things are? a) Most people do not realize that on rolling distros like Manjaro/Arch you have access to 90% of the software available through the package manager, all in a single place. No need to browse through dozens of websites to download everything and try to make sure they are updated. And the package manager updates them automatically!!!! b) Many send new users to Ubuntu 😱 a distro that gives bad name to Linux as it feels we are back 15 years ago. (which is why I hate it) Haven't used terminal on the Manjaro since forever. At least 3 years now and I am tinkering the system constantly, because I can 😀 c) People beg for MS to add their CPU in Windows 11. While others are on Intel vs AMD flame war at several places why Zen1 isn't supported, but at same time the Intel 7000 (Z270) and 6000 (Z170 & X99) or earlier CPUs aren't supported either. And they behave like the world will come to an end if W11 is out and they cannot upgrade! d) My mates have seen both the desktop and laptop with the widgets etc, they all find it impressive how nice and modern both Gnome and KDE look (themed) yet they are afraid to try them when gave them access to the systems. Somehow they "forgot" how to open the damn firefox on the taskbar, just because the taskbar is on the side, they look lost 😀 And the only thing they do with the computers is browse the internet, discord, blender and play World of Tank!! Nothing else! Using Manjaro + Gnome on PC, Kubuntu on the laptop until I reprogram the bios chip to unlock the secure boot crap (only allows ubuntu to work), and ofc unlock the bios to add 3200Mhz RAM support.

Fediuld:

You know what are most annoying things are? a) Most people do not realize that on rolling distros like Manjaro/Arch you have access to 90% of the software available through the package manager, all in a single place. No need to browse through dozens of websites to download everything and try to make sure they are updated. And the package manager updates them automatically!!!! b) Many send new users to Ubuntu 😱 a distro that gives bad name to Linux as it feels we are back 15 years ago. (which is why I hate it) Haven't used terminal on the Manjaro since forever. At least 3 years now and I am tinkering the system constantly, because I can 😀 c) People beg for MS to add their CPU in Windows 11. While others are on Intel vs AMD flame war at several places why Zen1 isn't supported, but at same time the Intel 7000 (Z270) and 6000 (Z170 & X99) or earlier CPUs aren't supported either. And they behave like the world will come to an end if W11 is out and they cannot upgrade! d) My mates have seen both the desktop and laptop with the widgets etc, they all find it impressive how nice and modern both Gnome and KDE look (themed) yet they are afraid to try them when gave them access to the systems. Somehow they "forgot" how to open the damn firefox on the taskbar, just because the taskbar is on the side, they look lost 😀 And the only thing they do with the computers is browse the internet, discord, blender and play World of Tank!! Nothing else!

A. Depends on what you're looking for, but yeah (especially once you get the AUR involved). It's funny because the Linux approach is faster and easier, but the concept is foreign to a lot of people so they don't know. Mac OS has this weird middle-ground, where you can do things the Windows way (which is technically wrong) but it works anyway. B. I'm one of such people (though, I would typically recommend Mint to new users). I haven't used Manjaro but really, Arch (or any of its derivatives) or any rolling-release distro is not a good idea for beginners. I can't speak for any differences in Manjaro, but Arch generally doesn't spoonfeed you; it doesn't make a lot of assumptions and it doesn't try to follow any industry standards. This makes things hard for beginners. Rolling releases aren't a good idea for beginners either, because there's no LTS and downgrading broken packages is not something a noob should be doing; it's not necessarily hard but it's not obvious either. Once you get enough familiarity, Arch and its derivatives are a great choice, at least for desktop users. D. I know the feeling. This goes back to what I said about familiarity. While you don't want "uncanny valley" levels of familiarity, you don't want something so foreign that you don't know what to make of it. It sure is difficult finding a middle ground.

Using Manjaro + Gnome on PC, Kubuntu on the laptop until I reprogram the bios chip to unlock the secure boot crap (only allows ubuntu to work), and ofc unlock the bios to add 3200Mhz RAM support.

...reprogram? Your BIOS doesn't have an option to just simply toggle secure boot off? Not sure I've ever encountered a device where it's forced-on.

alanm:

For example, PCs that meet the Windows 11 hardware requirements had a “99.8 percent crash-free experience” during Insider testing, while those that did not experienced 52 percent more kernel crashes, 17 percent more app hangs, and 43 percent more crashes for Microsoft’s bundled apps than did compliant PCs...

Lying with statistics. 52% more of 0.2% is 0.3%.

schmidtbag:

...reprogram? Your BIOS doesn't have an option to just simply toggle secure boot off? Not sure I've ever encountered a device where it's forced-on.

If I turn it off doesn't recognize that OS is installed. Even if it can see the USB drive which is installing without error the distro If is ON then again complains and doesn't boot However Acer allows to add GRUB to the secure list, it boots then fails over as fails to mount the drive. Spent hours. Contrary Ubuntu was installed regardless if Secure Boot was on or off (tried it both times) because Canonical has paid the licence to use Secure Boot. That is why I am against all these secure boot and several new settings coming with Windows 11. It won't take but 1 bios update to lock your system and not been free again. Especially if MS goes down the subscription model for the windows 11 as did with the Office and they will.

Astyanax:

Lying with statistics. 52% more of 0.2% is 0.3%.

Using the truth to imply lies is kind of how everything works.

I may update our two compatible laptops but the two qualifying gaming PCs in the house will possibly wait. At least mine will. My son can choose his own adventure. I was a little surprised at how new the CPU needs to be. I hadn't been paying that much attention to the requirements. List of compatible Intel CPUs List of compatible AMD CPUs

Astyanax:

Lying with statistics. 52% more of 0.2% is 0.3%.

In this example, the absolute (real) % increase is 0.1%, but that figure wouldn't raise an eyebrow anywhere hence the use of the relative 52%. Welcome to the 2020's. It's what we do now, use the eye-popping relative % instead of the absolute % in order to make figures seem more shocking. It's misleading at best, some would say it's downright deceptive. Another favourite statistics deception is the use of log scale graphs instead of the normal linear scale graphs that we all learnt at school, most people will have been presented with these without realising the difference and that they are being deliberately misled. The basic rule of thumb here is that if the graph is attempting to influence you in any way, and it has the words 'log scale' written on it, then chances are it's a deliberate attempt to fool you.

Zooke:

In this example, the absolute (real) % increase is 0.1%, but that figure wouldn't raise an eyebrow anywhere hence the use of the relative 52%. Welcome to the 2020's. It's what we do now, use the eye-popping relative % instead of the absolute % in order to make figures seem more shocking. It's misleading at best, some would say it's downright deceptive. Another favourite statistics deception is the use of log scale graphs instead of the normal linear scale graphs that we all learnt at school, most people will have been presented with these without realising the difference and that they are being deliberately misled. The basic rule of thumb here is that if the graph is attempting to influence you in any way, and it has the words 'log scale' written on it, then chances are it's a deliberate attempt to fool you.

Yep^....I prefer to call it "Lying by omission" but yea.....

I read somewhere, that you will still get the security updates on the patch Tuesdays, its only the feature updates you wont get, 22H1 etc....

I'm good to go for the update but not gonna bother cause why?

DannyD:

I'm good to go for the update but not gonna bother cause why?

FOMO syndrome too pervasive. Some succumb to it, but others are patient. Some feel like ants crawling up their crotch if they dont get it on day 1. Rational, relaxed ppl tend to yawn at the arrival of a new OS or consider it something to toy with rather than need to commit to on day 1. Nothing wrong with interest in a new OS, just the burning need to commit to on day 1 is the funny bit. 😀

alanm:

FOMO syndrome too pervasive. Some succumb to it, but others are patient. Some feel like ants crawling up their crotch if they dont get it on day 1. Rational, relaxed ppl tend to yawn at the arrival of a new OS or consider it something to toy with rather than need to commit to on day 1. Nothing wrong with interest in a new OS, just the burning need to commit to on day 1 is the funny bit. 😀

Maybe buy a key for £3 at some point but till then ..:D

0blivious:

I may update our two compatible laptops but the two qualifying gaming PCs in the house will possibly wait. At least mine will. My son can choose his own adventure. I was a little surprised at how new the CPU needs to be. I hadn't been paying that much attention to the requirements. List of compatible Intel CPUs List of compatible AMD CPUs

Not even all the "new" processors are supported.... MS still hasn't added the Ryzen 3 3300X to the list and it's more than a year old. Even if you stick to processors that meet the requirements, there's no guarantee of support.

My CPU is not even on the list so EFF that! LOL! Linux here I come!

Valken:

My CPU is not even on the list so EFF that! LOL! Linux here I come!

Been back and forth to Linux over the years but at end of day, Win 10 suites me just fine.

alanm:

Been back and forth to Linux over the years but at end of day, Win 10 suites me just fine.

Nowadays I just mainly work online, what movies, stream videos/audio and play games. As long as any OS can cover that basically, it will be enough. Or maybe when the next LTSC comes with must have upgrades such as auto HDR or Direct Drive for my next HW upgrade. Unless there is a must have "killer app" that needs something OS specific. We can always run VM for short term things like that.