Video games industry forms a coalition to fight the lootcrate gambling crisis

Published by

Click here to post a comment for Video games industry forms a coalition to fight the lootcrate gambling crisis on our message forum
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/258/258664.jpg
We will work on the behalf of games industry professionals of all political leanings.
Useless...
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/175/175902.jpg
sverek:

NCGP aka: FCC. NCGP : "Gambling in game is BAD!" EA: "Here is $10k, don't tell anybody" NCGP : "Gambling is OK" Nothing mentioned regarding transparency.... this need to be killed before it grown and fed by EA and other major game publishers.
Sadly for EA i don't think that it will end this way this time... What they have wake up doesn't care about company like Apple or Google and sue them for years on all (battle ((lol)) )front... so the little EA company...
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/250/250418.jpg
I hope EA and others that use loot boxes are raped, hard! I stopped buying AAA games at full price with Battlefield 2 and although I have Battlefield 3, I didn't pay even 1/5 of the original cost. Frack DLC, loot boxes and whatever. I want to buy the full game at launch.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/53/53598.jpg
"self-regulation within game companies" Hahahahahahahahahaha Oh wait, there were being serious. lol
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/270/270008.jpg
XP-200:

"self-regulation within game companies" Hahahahahahahahahaha Oh wait, there were being serious. lol
This will end up more like collaboration on how to do loot boxes.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
As much as I hate pay-to-win, lootboxes, and DLC for games that should have come with it, I don't think there needs to be a coalition or any legal action taken. If you're dumb enough to buy into these games and feel ripped off by them, that's your problem that you willingly put yourself into; it is not the publisher's problem. There are plenty of great games out there that don't pull this crap. Unlike casino gambling, the money spent in these games isn't anywhere near as addictive. You pay for the content once and you get a novelty. You know exactly what you're getting, and it isn't very rewarding because of this. Because the "reward" leaves no surprises, and, because novelties wear off, the addiction is relatively minimal. Also unlike casino gambling, there is a finite amount of money you can spend in [most of] these games. It's still a ridiculously high amount of money, but you probably aren't going to go bankrupt over it. I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but the only people who really get addicted to spending money in these games are those who are going to end up as drug addicts, alcoholics, or bankrupt, because they have no self-discipline and are too easily influenced by their desires, peer pressure, and pop-culture. When it comes to casino gamblers, that taps into a much deeper and subconcious part of the brain that can affect most people, and for that reason I am very much in favor of legally restricting such forms of gambling.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/80/80129.jpg
Loophole35:

Whole heartedly agree with you on this. People need to take responsibility for their actions. If you don’t like something like this don’t buy it. End of story. The people that bitch about it but keep buying it are like people that blame forks for people being fat or guns for murder instead of the people that made the decision. You shouldn’t need a governing body swooping in to save you from yourself. If people stop buying loot crates and games that have them they will go away.
Normally I would agree but a large portion of these people are kids. Kids don't have any sense of the value of money and lack self-control. I've personally watched my 14 year old cousin spend $80 in steam gift cards in 10 minutes on CS skins despite me attempting to talk him out of it, all because "I want an awp dragon lore". He's a moron, but he's also 14, everyone is a moron at 14 and I think companies should have some level of responsibility preventing this - parents as well obviously. Casinos recently started training employees to watch out for compulsive gamblers in a push by the casio association itself. I don't know if there should be laws in place, but I would like to see the industry take some action to try to curb it. Whether it be cool downs on purchases, warnings, whatever - I don't know, but I think if the Casino industry recognizes it as a problem with adults then we should definitely recognize it with children in gaming.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/212/212598.jpg
I get the idea of loot boxes, i don´t buy them, i´m not a friend of rng. If i want something, i´ll buy it directly, if it´s not available from direct buy, you can keep it.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/132/132389.jpg
sverek:

NCGP aka: FCC. NCGP : "Gambling in game is BAD!" EA: "Here is $10k, don't tell anybody" NCGP : "Gambling is OK" Nothing mentioned regarding transparency.... this need to be killed before it grown and fed by EA and other major game publishers.
JamesSneed:

This will end up more like collaboration on how to do loot boxes.
ubercake:

Self-regulation...Yeah right! More like a new lobby is forming to keep this type of thing from being regulated.
Ding ding ding. Either it's going to be bribed by companies like the FCC is bribed/corrupted, or it's straight up created from the ground up to prevent regulation to begin with which seems far more likely.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
Neo Cyrus:

Either it's going to be bribed by companies like the FCC is bribed/corrupted, or it's straight up created from the ground up to prevent regulation to begin with which seems far more likely.
Do you have solid examples of the FCC being bribed or corrupted? I would argue they're one of the very few US federal organizations who actually seem to care more about honesty and consumers rather than companies. Sure, they're often annoyingly nitpicky, their censorship is a killjoy, and many of their regulations (particularly involving wireless communication) adds woefully unnecessary complications, but aside from that last thing, that's just them doing their job.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
D3M1G0D:

The vast majority of gamers do not buy loot crates. The IAP industry thrives on whales, the select few 1%ers who have the cash to blow on these games. As long as the whales keep spending thousands of dollars for these games, IAPs will continue to exist. The situation is similar to those who overspend on hardware (e.g., 7980XE, Titan Xp). Only the 1%ers have the cash to buy these, but as long as they do, companies like Intel and Nvidia will continue to put their highest-performing products under a massive paywall.
Surely, it'd be more profitable to make a game actually desirable to play than to rely on these "whales", wouldn't it? Take GTA5 for example - that game is pretty old and yet it still ends up in top 10 charts at least once per month, 4 years after its initial release. They must've breached $1 billion by now.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/239/239175.jpg
How about a "coalition" to fight blatant tax evasion by EA, Ubisoft, Activision, WB, ... "Games are too expensive to make so we have to put 'micro' transactions and loot boxes in the games." Then they evade taxes like no tomorrow, spit out the same "too expensive to make" game every year that makes them billions and billions of dollars every single time. The poor bastards live in famine. Or rather, how about a coalition against the travesty that is modern "AAA" game publishing.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
Loophole35:

Don’t give GTA5 too much credit they have a very shady not-so-micro transaction model in their online.
True, though unlike games like SWBF2, players don't feel a need to buy the DLC for GTA5; the game is good enough as-is, and at least Rockstar has offered free DLC. Not all paid DLC is bad - it's really only a problem when it is basically a form of "controlled cheating" or when it gives you content that should have been available from the beginning. I'm not dismissing your point that Rockstar involves shady transactions, my point is they're not so scummy about it, at least not to the point where they can get away with it for long.
D3M1G0D:

Companies like EA have gotten a lot of flak for loot crates, but the trend didn't start with them, nor do I think they are to blame (like any other company, they are trying to make as much money as possible for their shareholders, which is their stated duty). I place the blame squarely on the whales - they are the ones who allowed IAPs to succeed in the mobile market, and they are who PC game developers are trying to appeal to now. Simply put, if rich idiots didn't spend boatloads of money on loot crates then we wouldn't have this problem.
Yeah, I think I see your point better now.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
sverek:

People who say “its ok to have gambling, its morons who suffer” should think way bigger. Its not only gambling issues, but games being balanced around gambling. You want get good in game? Spend around $1000 to get character that doesnt get insta killed. Or play for 3000 hours to unlock it... by the time nobody will the game anymore and move on to new game. You just giving an excuse to EA to promote pay2win strategy
Except people who aren't morons don't waste their time in the first place playing a game that should be based on skill but instead depends on gambling. There are plenty of good alternatives out there - nobody is forcing you to play these games. Sure, they may be pretty, but so are a lot of games that I know you (not specifically you) passed up because it didn't fit your interest. What's so different here? The only reason for anyone should get bothered is the fact that EA is ruining good franchises and developer studios.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
sverek:

Stop. You either endorse this trend or not. IT WILL affect how other publishers and developers look into it. By the time you keep ignoring this issue, Witcher 4 might as well have pub where you can bet real money to play poker to get in-game gold.
Just because I don't endorse it that doesn't mean there is anything to worry about or that I need to do anything about it. If people buy into this crap and enjoy it, good for them. Not my loss.
Just stop sticking your head in sand and saying "nobody is forcing you". It's like saying "nobody forcing you to use internet" once providers start to charge you $100 to access specific sites. Or "nobody forcing you to use a car" once government triple car taxes.
That is comparing apples to oranges. There are alternative games that are just as fun (if not more fun) than the pay-to-win crap that's out there. Eliminate the financing and many of these games still aren't that fun. Also, video games aren't that important. If every major published followed the ways of EA, I would have plenty of other things I could do to fill my time and enjoy my life. I tend to buy indie games most of the time anyway. The fact of the matter is, these companies are in it for the money and they're making something that nobody needs. If nobody is buying their crap, they're not making money. Since they can't depend on you to buy it, they will do what it takes to get the most profit. As for the Internet, that is something many people do actually depend on, and when something like net neutrality fails, everyone loses. That even includes people who aren't in the same country, and it can even affect people who don't use the internet. For most of the affected people, they don't have an alternative. As for car taxes, the only ones I know of are either based on emissions (which is done in the best interest of the entire planet) or they're based on excise when you buy something new. When it comes to the latter, vehicle manufacturers are either going to lobby to get their product sold, or, the citizens will get annoyed enough to fight it; it won't last. The better analogy would be fast food restaurants. They're basically feeding you addictive garbage. If you want to slowly kill yourself eating that crap on a regular basis, have it - I don't care. The companies have no obligation to change their methods as long as people willingly support them. There are healthier alternatives that aren't more expensive; the saying comes back - nobody is forcing you to go. If you're smart enough to avoid it, great. The only regulation that should be done is on parents who feed their children fast food on a regular basis, since it's basically child abuse. But even though this comparison is more akin to this discussion, video games aren't as extreme as this. EDIT: When it comes to products that people don't need to survive and aren't designed to exploit human psychology, I don't care what companies do. It's a vicious market and if they piss off their customers, they will suffer the consequences. The customers win in the end.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
sverek:

The point was, we still can do something about it.
Agreed - you can speak with your wallet. Or Tweet about it and gripe on Metacritic I guess, as has been also been done before. Might sound kinda stupid, but apparently it works.
This is exactly why I brought cars example. You might not have a car, so you don't care about people who has a car and how much they have to spend on it. But still they depended on it for commute, etc... Games are part of our culture. Just because I might not be a gamer, I don't want to allow publishers ruin gaming experience.
I have a car from 2016, and I live in an area where I am taxed based on the car's age and MSRP. This is my sole form of transportation, and I find the tax irritating because I don't even know what it goes toward. Unless I registered my car in a different state (which would add a whole other layer of headaches), I don't have an alternative - I'm stuck with this crappy situation; I am forced to deal with it if I want to keep my job. Sure, I could maybe buy a 10-year-old car where the tax is minimal, but then I have to deal with the burdens of an old car. The difference with games is there are still plenty of great options out there where devs/publishers won't blatantly screw you over. I haven't bought a game from from companies like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc anywhere from 4 to 10 years and I don't feel like I'm missing out one bit. There are plenty of huge publishers out there who could easily abuse their power, but for the most part they don't.
So this brings us back to the topic, gambling in gaming is hot issue right now and public opinion will have effect on it (hopefully as net neutrality). It's our chance to oppose it. If we don't say "NO" NOW, there no time frame to say "NO" in FUTURE. Gambling in games will become common and people spending money to be good in games will be common practice. This is the sad state of free social games. I don't want all games to suffer it.
I assure you, not all games will suffer this - only some AAA titles will. I respect your concern, but I'm telling you, this isn't going to last. It will naturally die on its own. People are getting more and more angry after every major game that pulls these gambling and pay-to-win stunts. Games will lose popularity when people are called stupid for buying into them. Peer pressure is a powerful tool. Since the vast majority of these games are online multiplayer, they're going to be pretty unappealing when there's nobody left online.
Silence is endorsement.
I disagree, because silent protesting is very much a thing. But I'm not going to argue beyond this. Anyway, if I am presented with a method beyond boycotting and picketing to stop this nonsense, sure, I'll join in. But until that happens, I'm just going to watch the fire burn itself out and laugh as these millionaires start blaming their misery on millennials.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/246/246171.jpg
D3M1G0D:

I dunno. My thinking is that with every micro-transaction, the more the game companies will glom onto it as a source of revenue. And as these companies become richer and richer, other companies will follow their example and implement their own micro-transaction. Investors will then take notice and pour their money into these companies (and out of competing companies) and we will have a micro-transaction arms race.
I see what you mean, but the fact of the matter is, the reason it is becoming a successful business model is because people like it and are ok with the pricing. But that behavior isn't universal. Companies like EA and Ubisoft make games that stick to a formula that appeals to the widest audience possible, for obvious reasons. The average person sucks at playing games, so paying a little extra to give them that rush of winning is also appealing. But when you buy a game that's more complex or competitive, the demographics of players change. Because of this, the devs can't get far with pay-to-win micro-transactions without pissing off their entire userbase, especially if the developer traditionally never did it. So yes, on the surface, the future may look grim for just about any game worth caring about. But if gaming is important to you as it is to millions of other people, I honestly don't think it will get much worse than it is now.
In early days of smartphones, there were plenty of pay-to-play games and I can still remember buying some during sales. Nowadays, those games are all but extinct and freemium games have become the accepted standard. Unless this trend is halted, I fear the same will happen to PC gaming*
I noticed this trend with smartphones, but I don't think it will happen to PC. For one thing, most people who play a game on a smartphone are really just doing it to kill time when they're waiting in line or taking a dump; there's a reason phone/tablet games are associated with casual gamers. It's hard to justify paying good money on something you only play for a few minutes at a time. But, devs need money, so they design the games around the same psychologically addictive principles as casino games. These games are way beyond what even EA would attempt.
In particular, those who grew up playing freemium games on smartphones may be more accepting of micro-transactions in PC games. The rich only seem to be getting richer (especially if Trump's tax plan passes) so in the future, games may only be enjoyably played by the 1%.
You have a valid point there.
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/66/66148.jpg
Looks like this faux lobby group was setup by a self-professed 17yr old internet troll. Thinks of himself as an entrepreneur according the digging done by Forbes.