NVIDIA’s Morgan McGuire: “First triple-A game to require a ray tracing GPU will be released in 2023”

Dragam1337

2019-07-30 14:58

Denial:

I don't think we know how much complexity DXR actually requires. RTX cards have Tensors which aren't required for RT. Strip the tensors off and how much bigger is a RT enabled GTX chip? Is it possible to make that core smaller and more efficient or implement DXR in a better way? For example AMD's implementation is looking like a part of the fetch in it's variant of the RT core is going to be done in the texture units - which should make the hardware footprint of it's "RT core" smaller. It's too early to tell.

Fair enough - i will personally just never use DXR if i can help it, and would much rather see the die space go to additional rastetazarion performance and / or cheaper prices.

#5695455

vbetts

Moderator

2019-07-30 14:58

Dragam1337:

No? I would prefer 2080 ti performance (preferably much higher performance) at more reasonable prices, which would be possible without RT cores etc.

Then people would but this and not their shiny 2080(or 2080S now I guess), and again flooding the market with more products just not needed. They've already done so with the funky Turing GTX line.

#5695457

Astyanax

2019-07-30 14:59

Dragam1337:

Tesselation didn't reqruire additinal hardware. SM3.0 helped improve performance.

Tesselation required an entire additional setup pipeline because nvidia implemented their polymorph engine with a fully parallel input. oh, Denial beat me to it.

#5695459

Dragam1337

2019-07-30 15:01

vbetts:

Then people would but this and not their shiny 2080(or 2080S now I guess), and again flooding the market with more products just not needed. They've already done so with the funky Turing GTX line.

Imo they should only have made 1 raytracing gpu - the highest possible tier. DXR performance is so bad that it doesn't make sense with anything other than a 2080 ti. But yeah, their lineup is way too cluttered, likely due to failing sales of the RTX lineup.

#5695467

Denial

2019-07-30 15:19

airbud7:

sorry if OT but would a GTX 2080ti "rt disabled" use less power than a RTX 2080ti?

Nope - they are powered gated when not in use.

#5695472

vbetts

Moderator

2019-07-30 15:35

airbud7:

yea but a gtx 1660ti is bumping heads with 1070ti with much less power draw...

People that buy into mid range cards like the 1660 series though most likely aren't worried about power draw.

#5695478

Kaarme

2019-07-30 15:44

Denial:

I don't think we know how much complexity DXR actually requires. RTX cards have Tensors which aren't required for RT. Strip the tensors off and how much bigger is a RT enabled GTX chip? Is it possible to make that core smaller and more efficient or implement DXR in a better way? For example AMD's implementation is looking like a part of the fetch in it's variant of the RT core is going to be done in the texture units - which should make the hardware footprint of it's "RT core" smaller. It's too early to tell.

It's not like the Nvidia would especially want to have the Tensor cores in the RTX cards. I believe it's just that the GPUs can't meet the expected FPS goals by using the regular AA while RT is enabled. It's a duct tape and bubble gum fix to the problem. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the next gen of Nvidia gaming cards lack the Tensor and only sport RT cores, dealing with the AA the old-fashioned way. Nvidia has most of the time been pretty good at getting more muscle out of their GPUs.

#5695480

MonstroMart

2019-07-30 15:47

loser7:

It would be required because it's much easier for devs to setup the lighting for a game with ray tracing and when hardware is good enough that they can use it across the board, they will stop using older methods for lighting effects all together to make things easier.

2023 seems to be very very optimistic though unless nVidia funds the game. Why would a developer purposely cut himself from half the market without nVidia paying them to do so? Next gen PS and Xbox wont be capable of ray tracing. Maybe a PC only game but even there i mean in 2023 there will still be a lot of people not owning a ray tracing capable gpu. RTX 2060 wont be strong enough for proper full blown raytracing in 2023. 2070 will be more than borderline by that time.

#5695484

Dribble

2019-07-30 15:58

MonstroMart:

2023 seems to be very very optimistic though unless nVidia funds the game. Why would a developer purposely cut himself from half the market without nVidia paying them to do so? Next gen PS and Xbox wont be capable of ray tracing. Maybe a PC only game but even there i mean in 2023 there will still be a lot of people not owning a ray tracing capable gpu. RTX 2060 wont be strong enough for proper full blown raytracing in 2023. 2070 will be more than borderline by that time.

The next gen PS and xbox are both meant to have ray tracing. If they develop the game for those then it would actually be more work to have to put in non-ray traced lighting render paths for old PC's. Being as AMD and Nvidia will have been offering ray tracing gpu's for PC's for years they might decide by then it's just not worth it.

#5695528

MonstroMart

2019-07-30 17:57

airbud7:

a 1680ti would be cool though.

Yet another revision of the 1080Ti? o_O

#5695531

Denial

2019-07-30 18:02

buhehe:

I find it kinda odd that next gen console would focus on RT rather than high refresh rates

Why are these two things mutually exclusive? You can have high refresh rates and RT hardware.

#5695534

The Laughing Ma

2019-07-30 18:06

Hilbert Hagedoorn:

Ray tracing is a technology that NVIDIA is currently pushing hard, the first triple-A game that will require a Ray Tracing graphics card will not be coming out anytime soon. According to NVIDIA&rs... NVIDIA’s Morgan McGuire: “First triple-A game to require a ray tracing GPU will be released in 2023”

So is anyone else seeing this guy from Nvidia as basically coming forward and saying by the way you don't actually need to buy one of our all new, all singing and new dancing GPUs for at least 3 years?

#5695537

insp1re2600

2019-07-30 18:17

The Laughing Ma:

So is anyone else seeing this guy from Nvidia as basically coming forward and saying by the way you don't actually need to buy one of our all new, all singing and new dancing GPUs for at least 3 years?

But we will, won't we, each one of those years 🙄

#5695538

Denial

2019-07-30 18:21

The Laughing Ma:

So is anyone else seeing this guy from Nvidia as basically coming forward and saying by the way you don't actually need to buy one of our all new, all singing and new dancing GPUs for at least 3 years?

If you want more performance you currently don't have a choice so, no?

#5695545

TheDeeGee

2019-07-30 18:31

By then i'm sure the prices have dropped by 50%?

#5695566

Caesar

2019-07-30 20:01

Isn't the "problem" with game development companies? ...where there would really have to be some sort of raytracing gameplay to make this a requirement. Otherwise, developers could just start doing barebones alternatives to raytracing effects like shadows/lighting or ambient occlusion or reflections. Honestly, this is probably going to be an outlier even 10-15 years from now. Why would you *require* RTRT on a game, shrinking your customer base even by a little, unless it is required for game mechanics?

#5695568

Denial

2019-07-30 20:07

Caesar:

Why would you *require* RTRT on a game, shrinking your customer base even by a little, unless it is required for game mechanics?

Because it's 500x easier and faster to get good results as opposed to rasterized lighting - especially when the entire scene is utilizing it.

#5695569

Stormyandcold

2019-07-30 20:13

Well, RT is and will be cheaper for game-devs to implement, rather than faking it, which is a lot more work. I imagine game development shifting to focussing on RT version first, with pure rasterization version worked on after RT version is in-place.

#5695584

0blivious

2019-07-30 20:45

This basically confirms what annoyed me about billing the 20 series as "RTX" instead of just the new GTX (with new ray tracing features). I mean, other than the pricing being absurd which was also annoying. Ray tracing is really cool but we aren't even close to being "there" yet. Perhaps in 4 years, we will be.

#5695586

Denial

2019-07-30 20:47

slyphnier:

so developer pick easy-way and let less people play/buy their game ? in another mean something like probably cheaper developer cost to allow less game-sales? even with good adoption rate in next 4years, except they can make RT work on old-gpu, making a game for RT-capable gpu only will still cut the sales except the game is sponsored/invested by either nvidia/amd, i dont think any developer will pick that way

Windows XP dropped under 40% marketshare in 2012. How many DX10/11 only games were out in 2012? 6% of the steam market currently doesn't even have a DX10 capable GPU. You think that's stopping developers?