I have the habit of not using a mail client, I usually just have a browser open and switch tabs as gmail auto refreshes whenever there is a new email anyway. Most average users don't have mail clients, but yes I get your point that it can be useful with auto updating tiles like for weather etc. The thing is even if I wanted that, depending on what it is those can be had on a desktop environment in many ways as well like with the old gadgets/widgets. Those two seem to think I'm out here trying to hate on some product and want it to fail. What sort of craziness would that be, personally it's inefficient to me as far as I've experienced and I don't like what it looks and feels like. Using it for a long period of time hasn't changed my opinion on it. I still stand by what I said from the very start that Win 8 would have been tremendously more popular and adopted if they just left the start menu leaving users with the option of using whatever they want. The moment it returns to Windows their sales will increase and I would bet the reports will show that.

You keep arguing that it's inefficient, among other things. Fact is, the fewer clicks to get the information you need, the better. I can get every bit of information I need by simply pressing the Windows key. I'm rarely in the start screen more than 20-30 seconds. Efficiency is taking the fewest steps necessary to accomplish a task. By definition, the start screen is efficient, unlike the start menu that requires taking additional steps. In my case, every task can be accomplished in 1-2 clicks, period. Using the start menu, you have have to make 2-4 clicks. The start menu and start screen are all about preference. Efficiency should never be mentioned as the start menu is, by definition, inefficient. It takes more steps (clicks) to accomplish the same task. The UI is another matter of personal preference. Some of us chose to make the UI work for us, instead of trying to use the default configuration. I use 4 different systems, all running Windows 8.x, all configured for a specific purpose. The only thing the 4 systems have in common, is they're all configured in such a way that any task they need to perform can be accomplished in an absolute maximum of 2 clicks. Coincidentally, I had Win7 configured in a similar manor specifically to avoid interacting with the start menu for any reason. I hate desktop clutter and sorting through a menu is inefficient, while the task bar is too small to pin every app. The start screen is the perfect compromise for people like me. It allows me to de-clutter my desktop without having to waste time sorting through inefficient menus. I've installed Windows10 in a VM and, quite honestly, I'm not impressed in the least. I find the start menu, as well as MS trying to force it on those of us that don't want it, to be ridiculous. Yes, there is an option to use the start screen, but the option should be presented during setup and not after. It's like MS finally wants to offer choice, but they don't really want to present that choice in a meaningful way.

It's not just about the start menu, being just on the desktop instead of having to switch any screen for anything is what I find preferable. Personally most things I do in the start menu is usually two clicks, Windows key plus one mouse click. Even when I need to do a simple search through it, that's one click of my Windows key plus the search term. Doing that in Win 8 doesn't automatically have the search bar selected unless I'm imagining things or there was an update at some point (I haven't updated in a long time). Either way it's a very minor difference, borderline nitpicking even, but I just don't like it. Maybe if I had a touchscreen monitor I would like it better since that's what it really seems to be designed for. I don't see any affordable 27"+ 1440p+ IPS/PLS/AMOLED touchscreen monitors being available anytime in the near future. I assumed Win 10 would just have both enabled by default. You're saying the tile screen has to be enabled after installation? Weird. I was actually going to install it today to try it out but my SSD is out of space and don't want to try it out on one of my slow HDDs. I want to know how it feels on the same equipment.

Hmm I wonder if Windows 3.1 or 3.11 users complained about the start menu when they upgraded to Windows95? I would say some did and some didn't. The same goes with Windows 8 some people didn't mind the change and some did. It goes on with Windows 10 that people who are used to the start screen don't want the start menu and users who don't like the start screen want the start menu.

It's not just about the start menu, being just on the desktop instead of having to switch any screen for anything is what I find preferable. Personally most things I do in the start menu is usually two clicks, Windows key plus one mouse click. Even when I need to do a simple search through it, that's one click of my Windows key plus the search term. Doing that in Win 8 doesn't automatically have the search bar selected unless I'm imagining things or there was an update at some point (I haven't updated in a long time). Either way it's a very minor difference, borderline nitpicking even, but I just don't like it. Maybe if I had a touchscreen monitor I would like it better since that's what it really seems to be designed for. I don't see any affordable 27"+ 1440p+ IPS/PLS/AMOLED touchscreen monitors being available anytime in the near future. I assumed Win 10 would just have both enabled by default. You're saying the tile screen has to be enabled after installation? Weird. I was actually going to install it today to try it out but my SSD is out of space and don't want to try it out on one of my slow HDDs. I want to know how it feels on the same equipment.

And yet again we're back to that.... You find it preferable to have a menu rather than to switch to a screen. Either way you look at it, you can't use the desktop while the Menu/Screen are open. So you either have to take the 2 seconds to do what you were going to do in either interface, or exit out of it, do what you wanted to do on the desktop, and start over. And your comment about search in Win8 just kinda proves how little you've actually used the OS. If you hit the windows key/start button, and just start typing, search automatically opens up and starts searching. Now... people might nit-pick that it doesn't just show a list of apps or files, instead having everything grouped together... but lets be honest... if it was a program you routinely use, you'd have a shortcut on the desktop. If you don't use it THAT frequently, you'd have a tile in the Start Screen. And if it's something you almost never use.... you can probably type the name of the program faster than you'd be able to navigate through the folder trees in the Win7 Start Menu.