Also, everyone who's saying "I own Windows [insert version number] outright" obviously never read the EULA. While I don't think MS is going to invalidate keys retroactively (specifically the cheap grey market ones), I do think those are going to go away if/when they decide to go through with this.

Every morning I wake up I wonder what else can Microsoft do to piss off their customers. This is one of them.

m4dn355:

Linux distros are smiling.

You have no idea how often I've thought about forcing myself to use a Linux distro for everything I possibly can. But every time I've attempted it, it didn't last long due to every issue you can imagine. Until desktop Linux distros go mainstream, as in a major company starts selling it pre-installed in products like Android is on phones, I don't see it developing to the point of being convenient enough for the average Joe to switch to.

D3M1G0D:

As I said, I have a Netflix subscription so I can watch any show on Netflix whenever I want. In no way is my subscription status dependent on future releases or exclusives. Buying DVDs would be an extremely costly and inconvenient alternative, especially since I tend to binge watch related content on a particular genre that I fancy at the time (the only time that I rent or buy a movie is when it's not available on Netflix, and I only buy digitally via Play Movies). The same goes for my subscription to Play Music. I could just outright buy each song or album, but I decided it would be easier to get a subscription so I can access the entire library of songs and play them whenever I want.

I understand all of that. You're kind of agreeing with my point. Your Netflix subscription gives you a wide access of various content, and I'm sure you don't intend to watch the same thing a dozen times. You pay for the subscription because you want the vast variety for a low price. I'm sure you're not going to be all that upset if something is taken down, because "owning" (take that word as you will) it isn't your interest. You are a perfect example of how a subscription system works well. How does this translate to MS products, whose features you use on a regular basis and does not continuously generate new features on a weekly, monthly, or even quarterly basis? You're continuously paying to use the same thing. You're hardly getting anything new, so why continue to pay for nothing else?

I used to buy DVD and Blu-ray movies, as well as maintaining a huge list of MP3s for my music library. I've gradually found that a subscription model is more convenient so I transitioned over. If Steam offered a subscription service, where you pay a monthly fee and access any game you want, I'd sign up in a heartbeat (assuming the price is reasonable of course).

Makes sense, though that's a bit of a digression. I was saying DVDs and Blu Rays more as an example of something kept permanently, but you can keep digital copies permanently too (like with Steam). Keep in mind, I'm not at all ridiculing your usage of these services. I don't want to give that impression. BTW, there are various subscription services for video games. Not Steam compatible, but they do pretty much exactly what you're looking for. Might be worth it for you to look into.

Again, you are paying to access the service, like Dropbox or Lastpass or a VPN. These subscription services all operate under the same model and a Windows subscription would be no different. Furthermore, if Office 365 is anything to go by, they will most likely offer it as an alternative to an outright purchase (you will most likely still be able to buy a license). At any rate, the success of Office 365 shows that this model is viable so I wouldn't be surprised to see it being used for Windows.

It's only a service because that's what MS decided to label it as. When you use something like Dropbox, you're paying someone to maintain the servers, replace dead drives, and for their electric bill. That's a service. If you don't feel like paying for all of that, just buy the HDD/SSD yourself, making it a product rather than a service. The nice thing is you have an option. The good thing about MS Office is they still give you the choice for the one-time payment to permanently "own" it. This is why I'm not so against Office 365 - I personally think it's dumb (take note HeavyHemi, this is an opinion) but it's not causing problems. Anyway, a business model can be successful, but that does not make it widely viable. If MS has "Windows as a subscription" as an option, fine, I don't really care. I think it's a poor value, but as long as there's a standalone choice (like there currently is) then there's no problem. However, just because a subscription service is a viable business with stuff like Netflix, that does not make it viable for an OS. If Windows were to ever become strictly a subscription service, I think that would be terrible news.

These subscription services are also great for multiple devices or users. Office 365 Home supports up to six users and five devices per user, with each user also getting access to 1 TB of cloud storage. Microsoft could offer something similar for a Windows subscription, meaning a single subscription could be enough for your entire extended family and each family member will get a ton of cloud space. I maintain multiple PCs at home so a Windows subscription would be helpful (it's one of the reasons why I have a Office 365 subscription). A subscription is a nice option if you want to share a service - I currently share my Netflix subscription with my sister, father and sister-in-law (who all live apart from me).

You say that as though one-time-payment products never had such an option.

Neo Cyrus:

You have no idea how often I've thought about forcing myself to use a Linux distro for everything I possibly can. But every time I've attempted it, it didn't last long due to every issue you can imagine. Until desktop Linux distros go mainstream, as in a major company starts selling it pre-installed in products like Android is on phones, I don't see it developing to the point of being convenient enough for the average Joe to switch to.

MS is constricting us like a python year by year, and we have no other choice but to move along in the end. Aside from gaming Ubuntu is pretty neat IMHO.

"These Tech companies want us all enslaved with no freedom just total loyalty to them. They are very sick!" (Mark Niebauer) "Subscriptions are great for profits. It will be leeching of forgetful consumers ("B2B") for years" (sverek) How many times did I write, on different forums: BigBadBill and people around him, they are not a company at all - they are a gang, organized group of hyenas. M$ was built on the theft and deception, and will always be a gang, not a "company" .

i'd sooner pay for windows 7 or 8 security updates.

are they encouraging people to pirate? i mean, seriously. why would i pay a monthly fee for my operating system that was previously pay once and use til you upgrade for the last 30+ years

I've read a few times that being in a subscription model with the right price and the right bonuses would be fine, and that we people are subscribing to many things anyway. I have to disagree. I don't want to pay $4.99 a month for the very most basic thing I need to use my PC, the OS. Also, I don't need any of the so called "features" that come along with it.... I wouldn't even know what a feature could be that would ge me remotely interested. Up until now I got everything I need when buying a windows license, including DirectX. Other than that I see nothing of value that m$ could offer me... I don't care about their cloud storage or something else since I don't use it, probably never will. Hell, probably half of the customers that buy a prebuilt PC with an OEM license don't use any of those features. Also, this probably introduced an online DRM (checking subscription), so that in order to use your PC you have to have access to the internet? That sounds silly for any mobile PC user, where you don't always want to make use of your mobile data plan or there's not always a wifi hotspot available to just start your device... Also I'd be basically paying $60 a year for an OS that you buy for... 100$, so after 20 months they start to earn more money off of customers. I haven't seen a single feature introduced since windows 7 that I want to use... it's sad but true. And I'm not even starting to talk on the state of dx12, win10 was able to introduce two features (HDR and DXR) that gamers can even see... and I don't fancy either of those. The rest? I don't think that we are talking about any theme modes or such rubbish that they sell as a new invention... sorry, but to have them earn more money off me for no more improvement only works because they got a de facto monopoly on PC gaming. They want to charge for the OS like a subscription... so what comes next? You need a monthly plan to drive your car because you have to subscribe for firmware updates or it won't start anymore? Or your fridge who's ice cube maker is suddenly not supported anymore unless you upgrade to the latest paid firmware version (second oldest being free)? Because they have a "bug" that suddenly disables functions that worked so you feel, think, or are suggested you should upgrade? We all know their practices... they're scum and they will force that on people. I can see the appeal of subscriptions to the company, but users only pay more, all the time, every time. So I'm not surprised by this, more groaning because finally the managers on top also have finally noticed. I don't want to pay a subscription fee to not use 90% of any user "front" features, that's silly. And honestly, for me there is not much more to it. Might switch back to win7 if they do this, in it's current state, I can well skip anything that has to do with dx12, so... what should I use win10 for then?

KissSh0t:

What would you get that's different to purchasing it? or..... if you subscribe to it long enough do you then pay off the price of it and you then own it?

Its for people that use/want/need Office Subscription, now they will get Windows as part of it.

Neo Cyrus:

Everyone and their dogs knew this was coming. Microsoft can suck a not so micro hard.

No, it is not and only conspiracy theorist thought otherwise. (Or, how did that Microsoft is replacing the desktop conspiracy work out?)

I hate subscription plans, especially for software. Win10 has been incredibly unstable for me, the notion of having to pay monthly for software that brick'd itself twice on update for me is laughable. Back when Adobe switched to the subscription based CreativeCloud, I swore them off. I paid $500 in 2010 as a student for Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, and use all three regularly. To get those now would cost me 52/month, which totals almost 5 grand for the 8 years I've had CS5. I guess what I'm getting at is that a subscription plan may seem cheap but adds up quick, especially when the product is going to be used for years and isn't seeing significant improvement to features or stability.

D3M1G0D:

And yet, Windows 10 is completely free to use. That basic functionality you're talking about doesn't cost a single cent - the only thing a license does is allow customization and gets rid of the watermark. You also don't necessarily need to pay for Office - the web version is free to use, as well as the mobile versions (for devices smaller than 10.1 inches). Believe it or not, there is more free Microsoft software today than there ever was before, and yet you complain bitterly about how they're forcing everything behind a paywall. To go from "Microsoft might offer Windows 10 as a subscription" to "Microsoft is forcing everyone to pay recurring fees for basic OS functionality" is a giant leap too far. A Windows subscription will likely follow the Office model - that is, it will be offered alongside individual licenses. I don't know about you, but I consider more options to be a good thing. Businesses will likely benefit the most from this kind of system but some consumers may also find it useful (those who need to manage multiple computers).

Is it? I can't imagine buying new hardware and build a PC and installing windows 10 and try to use it prolonged. It's not free, and honestly I don't know since when this should be the truth. Did I miss this anywhere? Might be the case, haven't heard of it or read of that around here.... I wouldn't mind a free basic win10 license without paying when I'm not a student and don't want to be limited by a trial time. And don't mention that win7 - win10 upgrade mechanic, it's not free to anybody not already having bought a license for 7 in some way, is it? And also it's over now, isn't it? Maybe I have missed something here, but I'd be glad to learn more about any free windows licenses / keys if you can point me in the right direction, which are not warez or stolen. I don't say there isn't enough free software from m$, I'm saying 1) that I don't need it anyway and 2) that they won't offer what I need without the other crap bundled in any subscription model, or so I thought... I'm afraid we're not exactly talking about the same thing. But when windows is a subscription model, what do you think will be offered outside of any subscription and outside of any bought license? The way I see it, if they want people to subscribe to a prolonged service, they need to give me some service. Yes, security updates could be one thing that's requiring them to constantly spend money on development of solutions. But that also was part of any windows version before, too. The thing with which the attractiveness of any subscription will work, or not for people are features, and the features introduced since win10's launch are not interesting to me personally. I could still live with winXP GUI, probably. 7 for sure.... I have to admit though, I did not know that you can now buy a seperate, pay once license for office 365, I've learned from you there. Although, you don't get the webstorage if you don't subscribe but pay for a full license (which is uninteresting to me anyway), so you do not get the same when buying a license and a subscription in that single detail. I hope they do keep up a similar model to windows, since like you also correctly said, more options are good. I just don't trust m$ to make it easier on the customer. Maybe they will, and I'm just a paranoid biased guru here, but I don't see m$ giving away something better for the same amount of money, they are a business, and as a business they're not necessarily living the philosophy of every home customer being king... You are right, it won't all be behind a pay wall, but I never actually said that... you made me rethink somewhat, and it probably won't be as radically cut down when a subscription is released, but I went into this more with the idea of windows being "subscription only". I'd like to install a plain, naked, fully "unlocked" windows (with ALL the options an ENT version or LTSB / LTSC offers) for a minimal one time payment, but this won't happen... I'm still expecting the non-subscription license will contain less of what they offer than what you get with a subscription model.

I guess that it may work for some, it may irk some other. For me, i'll stick to what i have now, and learn more and more to solve everything with Linux . Even consider MacOSX , but no way i will have Windows 10 with this policy. The only thing i fear the most is the weight Microsoft has in the Open Source consortium and what could happen when they start to do what they do best, screw everybody over.

Is this a shock to anyone? They gave W10 away for free and said that they would no longer be new OS releases opting to instead do constant updates to W10. Obviously MS wasn't making enough money from all the data scrapping they were doing, so have had to come up with something else.

D3M1G0D:

The Windows 7 to 10 upgrade is over, but you can still use Windows 10 for free if you want to (it just means that you can't customize it and there will be a permanent watermark in the bottom-right corner). I did this for several months earlier this year on one of my computers - it was a temporary system and I didn't want to spend more money buying a license (even without a license, it was fully functional and I used it as my main gaming system until I rebuilt it). Microsoft previously required you to buy a license to use Windows but they've become lenient with Windows 10, allowing you to use it without a license indefinitely with only cosmetic limitations. The article below has more details: https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/ Note that Microsoft wants to use Windows 10 as a service platform (to sell services like Skype, Office, OneDrive, as well as the Windows Store, Cortana and targeted ads) so they have an incentive to get more people on it. They previously operated under a pay-to-use license model but now they operate under a cloud-based subscription model, part of what turned the company around after the dark Windows 8 days. They've also opened up their products on more platforms and offer free to use versions.

Nope, upgrade is not over at all. Just download the Media Creation Tool, run it as an upgrade, install and done. Fully upgraded and activated Windows 10.

HeavyHemi:

I don't understand folks. Every one here willingly subscribes to a bazillion services they pay for..but for some reason Windows is exempt from the normal ways of thinking and exists in it's own special protected (for some) user bubble... Too an extent, I get this, it is not a perfect analog between being captive to your cable subscription and captive to your OS because of limited options. But there is validity to that concern. However, there ARE options to Windows. I don't think I read one single critique to Windows as a subscription versus one time buy, past emotion.

Nobody bought windows 8 so microsoft thinks nobody wants to pay a one time license fee to use windows, but windows 8 simply wasn't worth buying so naturally nobody wanted to shell out money on it. All they needed to do was make windows 10 worth buying but sadly it's far too late for that now, windows 10 has shown its true colors and the future for windows is darker than ever.

Order_66:

Nobody bought windows 8 so microsoft thinks nobody wants to pay a one time license fee to use windows, but windows 8 simply wasn't worth buying so naturally nobody wanted to shell out money on it. All they needed to do was make windows 10 worth buying but sadly it's far too late for that now, windows 10 has shown its true colors and the future for windows is darker than ever.

Hardly, especially considering Windows 7 was still being sold steadily throughout the Windows 8 time.

HeavyHemi:

I don't understand folks. Every one here willingly subscribes to a bazillion services they pay for..but for some reason Windows is exempt from the normal ways of thinking and exists in it's own special protected (for some) user bubble... Too an extent, I get this, it is not a perfect analog between being captive to your cable subscription and captive to your OS because of limited options. But there is validity to that concern. However, there ARE options to Windows. I don't think I read one single critique to Windows as a subscription versus one time buy, past emotion.

My biggest issue with a subscription model vs a one time purchase, is the simple fact that the total cost of use is considerably higher with a subscription model vs one time purchase. We already pay upwards of $120USD for a Windows 10 license. Consider that the absolute cheapest that MS would price a Windows subscription would be $5/month. That's $60 per year. After 24 months, you've already paid the same as the "one time purchase" license. After 3 years, you've now paid more. As for the "ownership" aspect. We own the hardware. Should we then be forced to pay a monthly subscription fee to use that hardware? Also, there are people that can't afford a monthly subscription for Windows. Those people would suddenly be forced back into the 80's when a home computer was out of reach of most people due to cost. Quite honestly, if MS decides to require a monthly subscription fee for Windows, I will simply move to Linux. Windows has always been an unnecessary expense for me. Everything I do on Windows, I can just as easily do on Linux. Even my favorite games have been ported to Linux already. Someone's reason being "emotion" doesn't make their reason any less valid. Consider the number of people on this forum alone that buy AMD, Intel or NVidia hardware based on "emotion"....

Neo Cyrus:

You have no idea how often I've thought about forcing myself to use a Linux distro for everything I possibly can. But every time I've attempted it, it didn't last long due to every issue you can imagine. Until desktop Linux distros go mainstream, as in a major company starts selling it pre-installed in products like Android is on phones, I don't see it developing to the point of being convenient enough for the average Joe to switch to.

There have been pre-builts sold with Linux. They always seem to fail in the market. Either due to lack of advertising, lack of support or excessive pricing compared to models with Windows, among other reasons.

D3M1G0D:

The Windows 7 to 10 upgrade is over, but you can still use Windows 10 for free if you want to (it just means that you can't customize it and there will be a permanent watermark in the bottom-right corner). I did this for several months earlier this year on one of my computers - it was a temporary system and I didn't want to spend more money buying a license (even without a license, it was fully functional and I used it as my main gaming system until I rebuilt it). Microsoft previously required you to buy a license to use Windows but they've become lenient with Windows 10, allowing you to use it without a license indefinitely with only cosmetic limitations. The article below has more details: https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/ Note that Microsoft wants to use Windows 10 as a service platform (to sell services like Skype, Office, OneDrive, as well as the Windows Store, Cortana and targeted ads) so they have an incentive to get more people on it. They previously operated under a pay-to-use license model but now they operate under a cloud-based subscription model, part of what turned the company around after the dark Windows 8 days. They've also opened up their products on more platforms and offer free to use versions.

Ahh thanks for pointing that out, I never knew. Learned something new here.