Good so see a article on the games performance. 🙂 Should make for a interesting read. (And the benchmark makes comparisons pretty easy since it's a scripted run that is mostly identical in how it plays out.)

JonasBeckman:

Good so see a article on the games performance. 🙂 Should make for a interesting read. (And the benchmark makes comparisons pretty easy since it's a scripted run that is mostly identical in how it plays out.)

These are NOT results done with the benchmark released a while ago!, this is a manually played run in the first chapter of the game (demo). Thus this is based on real gameplay and thus in-game measurements. Check the FCAT video in this article for the measurement run to replicate if you'd like to.

"This is an NVIDIA gameworks and this NVIDIA optimized title" Is it really just optimized when your company is actually creating the black box methods for how the game actually renders stuff? How would one determine something isnt working right when only Nvidia knows? I bet its always working as intended /s Back in the day it was a big deal when companies made game specific driver optimizations rather than something that optimized for the whole engine. We moved from that to working with the game developers to make sure hardware works correctly. Each hardware vendor could do this since the only barrier was the developer. Take that to the next level with gameworks actually locking out the other vendor. I guess that in a nutshell is the whole gameworks argument.

A difficult discussion, you can see that the perf hit with gameworks on/off is roughly equal for both parties. FF XV definitely seems to like GeForce cards a notch better though. BTW as mentioned in the article, I tested with the gamework features disabled, to create a more fair and balanced test field for both brands.

RzrTrek:

Looks like GTX 1060 is ~14% faster on average vs. RX580 at 1080p.

Should get better. Initially, the benchmark ran like complete crap for me, not a stuttering issue. With the newest driver, I gained nearly 1000 points 1080p standard quality. I just hope this isnt one of those gameworks games where AMD is locked out of the game engine. Plus I wonder if a 100mb read/write mechanical drive is enough for this game. I have 4 SSDs, 1 for OS, 240GB, 480GB, and a 512 GB. The 3 game drive are full, so maybe I will clear 100GB off the 240GB. Its got 57GB free.

Srsbsns:

"This is an NVIDIA gameworks and this NVIDIA optimized title" Is it really just optimized when your company is actually creating the black box methods for how the game actually renders stuff? How would one determine something isnt working right when only Nvidia knows? I bet its always working as intended /s Back in the day it was a big deal when companies made game specific driver optimizations rather than something that optimized for the whole engine. We moved from that to working with the game developers to make sure hardware works correctly. Each hardware vendor could do this since the only barrier was the developer. Take that to the next level with gameworks actually locking out the other vendor. I guess that in a nutshell is the whole gameworks argument.

Source code for the following gameworks libraries is available here: https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks-source-github AnselSDK (EULA) Flow (EULA) FleX (EULA) Blast (EULA) Vulkan/OpenGL Samples (public) NvCloth (EULA) Blast (EULA) HairWorks ( EULA ) HBAO+ ( EULA ) FaceWorks (public) PhysX SDK ( EULA ) Volumetric Lighting ( EULA ) D3D Samples (public) Nothing in the EULA/Terms signing up prevents AMD from seeing the source of the GW Libraries that are available. The bottom line is that the vast majority of Nvidia's libraries make use of tessellation and AMD's hardware is notoriously bad at tessellation levels above 16x. And before you or someone else posts about the levels of tessellation being unnecessary: http://imgur.com/a/VorPz http://abload.de/img/amdreducedtessellatioclrrn.jpg - AMD "Optimized" Tessellation http://abload.de/img/fulltessellation2jrki.jpg - Default Tessellation x64 tessellation is also necessary in most forms of volumetric lighting. Another example is GodRays where forcing lower levels of tessellation on AMD results in artifacting around dense regions of geometry. Pictures of HairWorks are not a good example of 'over tessellation' because the high level of tessellation is to ensure simulation accuracy. It AMD wants to do well in GameWorks games it needs to figure out how to turn this around: https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph11717/90104.png Force AMD's hardware into a lower tessellation level completely eliminates the gap in performance. This idea of GameWorks artificially gimping AMD's performance because it's "a black box" is nonsense and always has been nonsense.. even when they didn't have the source. Nvidia had no trouble issuing a driver update for TressFX in the first Tomb Raider fixing it's performance before the source for TressFX was released. In fact the majority of the time neither Nvidia/AMD ever get a games source and yet they are both capable of optimizing for binaries and do so regularly.

Hilbert Hagedoorn:

These are NOT results done with the benchmark released a while ago!, this is a manually played run in the first chapter of the game (demo). Thus this is based on real gameplay and thus in-game measurements. Check the FCAT video in this article for the measurement run to replicate if you'd like to.

That's what I get for being in a hurry, so this is based on the demo build then alright. 🙂 Should cover almost everything then aside from perhaps VXAO and be pretty much on par with the final game aside from perhaps some tweaks and the later regions possibly having a more pronounced effect on the GPU or CPU load of things depending on if it's a arid area, forest or a town. Good read, 580 is still keeping up on AMD's side though the 1080Ti is in a class of it's own as expected leaving the Vega behind by quite a margin, going to be interesting to see what new cards NVIDIA has planned if there's a consumer variant for 2018 and if there's any availability at all ha ha. (And price but it is what it is.) Far Cry 5 as the next game performance test I guess, AMD managing to hold onto it this time unlike Far Cry 4 or Watch_Dogs 2 as a Vega GPU title and some tech. And the full version of FF 15 on March 6th but I guess this initial area won't differ too much compared to the demo build here, game really loves VRAM if you let it have access to it from what I've read ha ha. EDIT: Well I suppose AMD might be able to get something more out of the game from newer drivers, NVIDIA looks like they're already well optimized by this point but perhaps there's advantages to be had here too, multi-GPU should be possible by some method if not already supported for example. 🙂 And unless the entire AMD GPU lineup is under-performing Vega looks to be in a class above the 580 so it's not held back that much although it can't match the Pascal architecture on NVIDIA's side but that's been the case in most benchmarks so that's nothing new. (Vega 64 isn't too far behind the 1080 though, not close enough to match it but not too behind to be completely outclassed either though that and then the Ti just dominates in most current games.) Interesting to see, I mean this is a GameWorks game but all the effects can be disabled either in-game or via the launcher leaving mostly the driver side of things and what the game itself is geared towards. (Geometry or shader work or a bit of both.) (Amazing how well Pascal held up really, will be fun to see what the next reveal will be and then Navi or what's next from AMD.) EDIT: And I guess Vega and Polaris aren't too bad if they ever return to their regular price class (As if!) and well if there's any actual availability for these GPU's at all ha ha. (Even NVIDIA is starting to feel the demand a bit now, and the pricing increase so yeah, fun times ahead but that's a separate problem entirely and already a well discussed one.)

Agonist:

Should get better. Initially, the benchmark ran like complete crap for me, not a stuttering issue. With the newest driver, I gained nearly 1000 points 1080p standard quality. I just hope this isnt one of those gameworks games where AMD is locked out of the game engine. Plus I wonder if a 100mb read/write mechanical drive is enough for this game. I have 4 SSDs, 1 for OS, 240GB, 480GB, and a 512 GB. The 3 game drive are full, so maybe I will clear 100GB off the 240GB. Its got 57GB free.

I had benchmark on fast SSD and demo on normal HDD and it ran the same, slight streaming stutter time to time when running across the map.

Hilbert, theres some missing info in the chart on p8. I presume the processor core scaling chart colored bars are for resolutions. Its not mentioned so can be confusing.

alanm:

Hilbert, theres some missing info in the chart on p8. I presume the processor core scaling chart colored bars are for resolutions. Its not mentioned so can be confusing.

Legend added, thanks for reporting.

Nomsky:

To say that Adrenalin 18.2.3 officially supports FFXV is an outright fallacy. AMD shall release an optimized driver upon the game's official release, rendering this article redundant.

If they do, we'll update the article with the new driver set and see if it makes a difference. Would be good if they do.

-Tj-:

I had benchmark on fast SSD and demo on normal HDD and it ran the same, slight streaming stutter time to time when running across the map.

It did the same for me. I tried it on 960 EVO, 512 GB Sandisk, and 3TB 115mb read.

Well its good that I chose the 6GB 1060 in my gaming Laptop because of the High VRAM usage maybe if I turn down some of the settings it will decrease the amount of VRAM needed. It's good to see that you don't need a high end CPU to play this thing according to the CPU section. You can get by old the old i5s or i7s of generations past instead of getting the Coffee Lake based CPUs.

Am i the only one thinking nice clevage? 😉

Denial:

Source code for the following gameworks libraries is available here: https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks-source-github AnselSDK (EULA) Flow (EULA) FleX (EULA) Blast (EULA) Vulkan/OpenGL Samples (public) NvCloth (EULA) Blast (EULA) HairWorks ( EULA ) HBAO+ ( EULA ) FaceWorks (public) PhysX SDK ( EULA ) Volumetric Lighting ( EULA ) D3D Samples (public) Nothing in the EULA/Terms signing up prevents AMD from seeing the source of the GW Libraries that are available. The bottom line is that the vast majority of Nvidia's libraries make use of tessellation and AMD's hardware is notoriously bad at tessellation levels above 16x.

Do note that the source code you are referring to contains a ton of headers. This means they could potentially call for functions in closed pieces of code. On the point of TressFX vs Gameworks its simple. TressFX uses the MIT License which allows you to modify the code to your needs where at gameworks you only get to see code and not optimize that to your hardware. AMD " Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:" NVIDIA " Object Code: Developer agrees not to disassemble, decompile or reverse engineer the Object Code versions of any of the Materials. Developer acknowledges that certain of the Materials provided in Object Code version may contain third party components that may be subject to restrictions, and expressly agrees not to attempt to modify or distribute such Materials without first receiving consent from NVIDIA"

RzrTrek:

Looks like GTX 1060 is ~14% faster on average vs. RX580 at 1080p.

You need to remember that real bench in this game should looks like: 1060 w/Gameworks Vs RX580 noGameworks ~You've got the same FPS (don't forget that Gameworks is based on CUDA cores) So your RX580 is OK.... Also Game is Artificial VRAM Eater so new 8GB line of GPUs looks better than old 4/6GB ones. Switch for Fiji -maxvram=4200 or for 980Ti -maxvram=6144

Loophole35:

As Denial already pointed out Gameworks centers around tessellation. AMD hardware is notoriously bad with handling high levels of tessellation. No the proper way to test is not trying to gimp one card over the other. Hilbert tested with Gameworks disabled on both cards and that is the fairest way. He did the same thing when Tombraider came out with TressFX. He dissabled it on both AMD and nvidia.

-> https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/amd-says-nvidias-gameworks-completely-sabotaged-witcher-3-performance Here bro 😉 No it's not the Radeons fault, according to Richard Huddy the problem lies elswere.

This demo basically just confirmed all my fears. - The proprietary engine is screwy and has stuttering from bad frame pacing on all systems. It has noticeable frame pacing problems on the PS4/Pro and XB1/S/X as well. - Has a BS arbitrary frame rate cap of 120 through in-game settings (can be increased through modding an ini?) because it's Square Enix and that's what they do. Someone should tell SE that nearly all high refresh rate monitors sold these days are 144/165Hz. - Doesn't give you full access to graphics settings. Such as no individual setting for disabling depth of field. - Is hilariously resource intensive (for what it is) even with nVidia GameWorks settings disabled. It's as RAM intensive as the mud-and-sticks quality benchmark which had tons of stuff offscreen being rendered for no reason. Uses nearly all the RAM (10.5GB usage shown in OSD, near the gas station) on a 1080 Ti at 1440p (100% scaling). Oh and for anyone considering buying this, just know that it's not the complete game, there will be at least 1 more DLC pass for content after this upcoming release. I bought my copy from GMG, they offer discounts.

BReal85:

It is quite unimportant as the RX580 is a faster card than the 1060 overall.

... Which is irrelevant in a thread about this game specifically. 14% is notable, and most people only play a small selection of games beginning to end in a year; if even a few games perform better on a 1060 then that's what should be bought if those are what the buyer is spending the year playing. Unless you plan on keeping the card for a very long time. Also there hasn't been any stock of RX5xx cards for what feels like a year and there won't be again so long as mining on gaming cards is a thing. Can't recommend an item that can't be bought. AMD ain't in the market of selling cards to gamers buddeh.

There's a few 580's in stock occasionally from what I've been tracking the last months, but at upwards of 700 to 1000 US Dollar whenever some stock is available (Disappears pretty quickly even at that price.) yeah the 1060 and in that price range even the 1070 or 1080 would be the go to choice depending on what can be found and at what price. 🙂 (Kinda silly checking these price comparison sites and overviews and seeing the GPU listed at MSRP but unavailable and then some shipment arrived and the price somehow doubled, or worse and they're still selling out really quick too.) And yeah GMG with the pricing error and discount code, around 40 Euro for this and FF XII together? Bought. 😀 Plus yeah round 2 of DLC's or season 2 with four new episode packs and even more free content updates adding and expanding on the game so for a serious full playthrough that might have to wait until 2019 but that gives some time for getting the existing backlog down a little bit ha ha. (Chapter replay and the episodes mostly being for end-game due to spoilers and such is one way of doing it though.) As for the engine that's going to be fun digging into, modding should see all sorts of weird, quirky and fun (And outside of Steam also naked.) content being released, people already ripped the demo the demo assets already no doubt some Patreon person is making money out of Full Service Station (The Brazzier parody thing.) now with 100% game assets instead. 😛 (Well you could hunt vermin in the game for repairs..or Cid and Cindy could bring the car battery and jumper cables over. Now that's a kickstarter heh.) EDIT: Well one more week and we'll see what the full game experience will be, a few months and mods will probably have made the developers equal parts impressed and disturbed over what people can come up with. 😀 (Though that's probably nothing compared to Valve's reaction a few hours past Source Film Makers initial release.) Down the line though perhaps some really amazing creations could be done with the game too, adding back cut or half implemented content, using the unused parts of the maps and improving or re-balancing combat and other mechanics, won't be the first mods coming out but maybe eventually. 🙂 (First is probably using certain character models as party member replacements depending on how easy that is, Steam workshop has a curious listing for hats and Moogle costumes for the game too.) (Here: https://steamdb.info/app/637650/items/ )

Well I turned on ANSEL and looked under the ground. Tons of what look like placeholder ground textures under the ground. Along with tons of other stuff. It all looks like an amateurish mess. That explains the massive memory usage, there's probably random shit out of view everywhere in the game. @JonasBeckman 40 Euros for both is a nice discount, but at the same time I feel like for old games that's still not a cheap price. When I bought mine the pricing error had it at $40 USD instead of $50, and a 25% off code made it $30 USD, which was about $37 CAD. Sure beats the Steam Store price of $67 CAD, which is definitely above the US price... for what is the US version of the game.