Yeah I am afraid I do not have that processor anymore. Typically we get 3 weeks with a proc before it gets returned to Intel. For this review things are even worse, Intel abandoned press marketing in the Netherlands/Benelux and simply does not communicate anymore. We had to loan the samples from mobo partners.

It's like they're really checking out somehow. How is it possible they don't have anyone on the Netherlands, wtf. These CPUs are expensive, no matter what everyone might say. 4c/4t is too few these days, even for gaming. Latencies get killed.

You just got me to realize something - I think Intel is intentionally making these super expensive. To my knowledge, there won't be many (if any) OEM PCs released in the next month or two based on Kaby Lake. That leaves primarily enthusiasts and home PC builders to buy KL products, but, most of these people are intentionally waiting for Zen to be released. The die-hard Intel fans will buy KL regardless of price or how much better Ryzen could possibly be, so Intel can easily gouge them. Intel might not know how good Ryzen is, but they do have a reasonable doubt that it will be competitive enough to hurt their sales. So, when Ryzen is released, Intel will do some massive price drop, basically to the point where KL will be the price point they likely intended it to be at release date. Intel effectively won't lose any money in sales they make, but, they'll divert attention away from AMD by saying "hey look at this nice 15% price drop!" (just guessing here, I didn't actually do the math to figure out how inflated the price is). Make sense?

Hahaha, genius!

Let's not even mention that all the refreshes from OEMs will be Kaby, so it will really be primarily be sold to them.

Intel is not marketing new processors because they are aware it's nothing special. They are waiting for AMD to reveal their cards. Even if AMD has an amazing product (which could be the case finally), Intel is a giant, with a huge fanbase who will buy their hardware no matter what comes out from AMD. All they need to do is discount their parts and they are good to go. Also, I bet Intel has several things in their R&D department just waiting for the right moment. Why would they release any massive advancements in computing if they are not making a huge profit on it? Having said that, my next build will be based on Ryzen if it delivers on benchmarks. I had several AMD builds in the past, and I was always happy with the price/performance ratio.

If I overclock my Skylake, it will magically turn into Kaby Lake, by the looks of it. I mean, unless I desperately want to buy an amazing 16GB Optane loldrive.

Even if AMD has an amazing product (which could be the case finally), Intel is a giant, with a huge fanbase who will buy their hardware no matter what comes out from AMD...

Not so. In 2005 almost everyone here was on Athlon 64/x2. People go for performance when it comes to CPUs, not brand. What changed? Intel began designing better performing chips (from Conroe onwards, 2006-). If Zen is a killer, expect a big shift once again.

Not so. In 2005 almost everyone here was on Athlon 64/x2. People go for performance when it comes to CPUs, not brand. What changed? Intel began designing better performing chips (from Conroe onwards, 2006-). If Zen is a killer, expect a big shift once again.

I think the difference is that Conroe offered a significant performance increase in real world scenarios over the AMD equivalent at the time. http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/review-core-2-duo-e6600-e6700-x6800,7.html That's a pretty massive impact, especially considering 1600x1200 in 2006 was basically equivalent to 1080p now. 20% performance at a modern resolution from a single CPU generation is unheard of and it was like that across multiple AAA titles. Zen isn't going to have nearly as much impact as that in terms of performance. I don't expect we'll see the mass exodus that occurred when Core 2 was released, it's going to take much longer and AMD needs to be in it for the long run. The pricing will definitely drive some people though plus I think in general everyone is getting tired of Intel and their nonsense.

Not so. In 2005 almost everyone here was on Athlon 64/x2. People go for performance when it comes to CPUs, not brand. What changed? Intel began designing better performing chips (from Conroe onwards, 2006-). If Zen is a killer, expect a big shift once again.

We (meaning enthusiasts) are the minority. Most people I encounter have never heard of AMD. I have known people with an AMD sticker on their laptop and they still never heard of the company. If our community's decisions applied to everyone, AMD would have been able to handily afford to defeat Core2 as well, but they didn't. That's not to say people know exactly what Intel does, but most people know and trust the brand regardless of how good or bad a product may be. Kind of like Ford or Honda. Bulldozer will have permanently put AMD behind. Unless Intel does something exceptionally stupid, they will always outsell AMD.

I think the difference is that Conroe offered a significant performance increase in real world scenarios over the AMD equivalent at the time. http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/review-core-2-duo-e6600-e6700-x6800,7.html That's a pretty massive impact, especially considering 1600x1200 in 2006 was basically equivalent to 1080p now. 20% performance at a modern resolution from a single CPU generation is unheard of and it was like that across multiple AAA titles. Zen isn't going to have nearly as much impact as that in terms of performance. I don't expect we'll see the mass exodus that occurred when Core 2 was released, it's going to take much longer and AMD needs to be in it for the long run. The pricing will definitely drive some people though plus I think in general everyone is getting tired of Intel and their nonsense.

Yes, agree. No ones expecting a conroe type performance leap with Zen. So no big shift to AMD would be expected. But if Zen is just a little better, I'll bet that may be just enough to initiate a decent size move from long term Intel users to AMD. I certainly may, even if it was equal performance, as a protest move away from Intel for the crap they've pulled with KL.

We (meaning enthusiasts) are the minority. Most people I encounter have never heard of AMD. I have known people with an AMD sticker on their laptop and they still never heard of the company.

Agree there.

If our community's decisions applied to everyone, AMD would have been able to handily afford to defeat Core2 as well, but they didn't.

Not sure about that. Intel was always the 900lb gorilla and could devote tremendous resources to come up with counter moves to whatever AMD comes up with. It would be an exhausting thing for AMD to keep up or be ahead consistently.

Bulldozer will have permanently put AMD behind. Unless Intel does something exceptionally stupid, they will always outsell AMD.

IMO Intel have indeed done something stupid, its called KL. In the bigger scheme of things it may not amount to much, but on the enthusiast playground I'll bet many are just ready to slap them in the face and go AMD.